Larry King, Interview with Family of George Smith
CNN LARRY KING LIVE, December 13, 2005
Interview With Family of George Smith
Joining us first from Washington, George Smith III, the father of George Smith who disappeared from the cruise ship this summer; Maureen Smith, who is George’s mother; Bree Smith, his sister; and Brett Rivkind, the attorney for the Smith family.
Last July a honeymoon cruise in the Mediterranean ended tragically for George Alan Smith IV and his bride, Jennifer Hagel- Smith. They were on a Royal Caribbean cruise line. The Brilliance of the Seas was the name of the ship.
Jennifer was told that her 26-year-old husband had apparently gone overboard. Blood was reportedly found inside the newlywed’s cabin and below the balcony outside their stateroom. Since then, the Smith family has been looking for answers.
Brett, why in Washington today? What happened there today?
BRETT A. RIVKIND, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF GEORGE SMITH IV: Today, Larry was very interesting. The Congress took a very hard look at a growing problem here in the cruise ship industry and went right to, we had FBI representatives, representatives from the Coast Guard and the Navy and the cruise line has been trying to promote statistics saying it’s not a problem.And, I quote the Congressmen, Larry. “Statistics are meaningless. We can’t trust them because there are no requirements that these crimes be reported. We are relying on them to voluntarily report it.” And, the FBI conceded, as did the Coast Guard and the Navy that they cannot rely on these statistics and that there is a problem.
KING: All right.
RIVKIND: Another Congressman called it a major problem, Larry.
KING: All right. Let’s get into the story. George Smith was your son, right?
GEORGE SMITH III, SON VANISHED FROM HONEYMOON CRUISE IN JULY: Yes, it was.
KING: OK, and he married Jennifer Hagel.
G. SMITH: Yes.
KING: Are you in close touch with her by the way?
G. SMITH: Yes, we are.
KING: OK. How is she doing?
G. SMITH: I sat next to her at the meeting today and she seemed fine.
KING: All right. What happened to your knowledge? What did she say to you?
G. SMITH: You know, we really haven’t discussed it too much. We haven’t gone into it that much lately and a lot of it, you know, she can’t say too much because of the FBI. They’ve pretty much, you know, told her to shut it down.
KING: She’s not a suspect though is she?
G. SMITH: No.
KING: OK. Maureen, the mother of the missing George Smith, how did you learn about this?
MAUREEN SMITH, MOTHER OF GEORGE SMITH IV: We received a call at 6:30 on July the 5th from Jennifer’s father saying that something terrible had happened to George on the cruise ship and that’s how we found out.
KING: And, Bree, what do you know? Had your brother spoken to you before he went on his honeymoon?
BREE SMITH, BROTHER VANISHED FROM HONEYMOON CRUISE IN JULY: Oh, yes. I was actually living in Hong Kong at the time and I flew over for his wedding and the last time I saw him was the day after his wedding. My mother had a little luncheon for him and we waved goodbye and he went off on his honeymoon cruise and never came home.
KING: Where did they live, Bree? Where was the marriage?
B. SMITH: Well, they were married in Newport, Rhode Island but they were living in Greenwich, Connecticut.
KING: OK. And then they flew off to where?
B. SMITH: They flew to Barcelona and they had a few days in Barcelona before their cruise left.
KING: How long was the cruise out before he was missing?
B. SMITH: It was halfway through. I think it was about six, five or six days in.
KING: Brett, what can the family do legally?
RIVKIND: Well, at this point, Larry, we — the family can bring a civil action against Royal Caribbean and seek to get answers on their own. They’ve been waiting over five months now quietly at the request of the FBI, grieving in private and they don’t have any answers.
So, through the civil action, Larry, we can do discovery. We can take depositions and we’ve already requested a whole list of documents, information and answers to questions which we still haven’t received yet.
So, through a civil action, Larry, they can hopefully hold Royal Caribbean accountable for their actions in this case but more importantly gain some important information that they don’t have at this time.
KING: At today’s hearing in Washington a spokesperson for Royal Caribbean addressed the committee about the Smith case, and here’s some of what was said. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG PURDY, DIRECTOR OF SAFETY, SECURITY AND ENVIRONMENT FOR ROYAL CARIBBEAN CRUISES LIMITED: The Smith family has suffered a tragic loss and we extend our deepest sympathies to them.
We do not know what happened to George Smith, only that he tragically disappeared from a cruise but we continue to cooperate fully with the FBI in the hope that the agency will be able to provide solid answers and some measure of closure for the Smith family. As to Royal Caribbean’s efforts, we believe that despite this terrible tragedy the cruise line handled George Smith’s disappearance correctly and responsibly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: All right, Brett, let’s take the obvious. Two people are on a cruise. A man passes another man on a cruise. He doesn’t like him. He picks him up and throws him overboard in the middle of the Atlantic or wherever. How is that a cruise line’s fault?
RIVKIND: Well that’s not the case here, Larry. As you know…
KING: No, but I mean how do we — but that can happen right and a cruise line couldn’t be at fault if someone throws someone overboard.
RIVKIND: Well, it would depend on the circumstances, Larry. First of all, we think increasing public awareness as to crimes occurring aboard the ships would help as an increased security presence onboard the ship.
KING: All right.
RIVKIND: Today the cruise line wouldn’t answer any questions about the amount of security that they actually have onboard ship who would constitute actual security officers or qualified security personnel.
It leads you to believe, as the Congressman said, if they had a lot of security personnel onboard who are qualified they would have wanted to volunteer that information to have been proud of that.
They didn’t want to answer that question, Larry, so we think in your example maybe there will be instances that you can’t prevent, of course, but the vast majority we believe through increased public awareness of the nature and extent of criminal activity on cruise ships and an increased amount of security would prevent most crimes onboard ships.
KING: George, what do you perceive happened? Blood was found where, George?
G. SMITH: Excuse me. There was blood found in the room. There was blood found in the bathroom and a little bit I guess out on the deck and then down on the awning over the top of the rowboat or whatever.
KING: Yes, and it was his — it was his blood?
G. SMITH: I really don’t know. The FBI hasn’t really told us but we’re assuming it is.
KING: Maureen, are you presuming the worst that you son was murdered?
M. SMITH: Yes, I am, Larry. I am at this point. It took me quite a while to reach this point but I’m starting to face the fact that it was probably my son who went overboard. And they said today that I think it was 75 percent of bodies don’t come to the surface.
KING: No. Do you have any conceivable notion, Maureen, about who would want to do this?
M. SMITH: No. My son was just too nice. I really don’t know who would do this to him. He was just a lovely young man and I just think it was — from all accounts it was just from the word go it was like a ship out of control I heard. There was people on there that were out of control I heard.
KING: What do you mean drinking?
M. SMITH: Yes, drinking, partying too hard, picking fights. There was a lot of stuff going on, on that ship, and Royal Caribbean did not have control of that ship from the word go.
KING: Is it possible, Bree, that your brother had an altercation with someone on the ship, a fight? Did Jennifer tell you? Did he have a run-in? Did she spot someone who might have been mad at him?
B. SMITH: Jennifer hasn’t mentioned anything about a fight to us. Anything is possible, Larry. We don’t have any facts.
KING: Where was she when he went missing?
B. SMITH: That I actually don’t know. I know that the FBI knows that information but we have not been told that information.
KING: She can’t — but she can’t tell you her sister-in-law?
B. SMITH: Unfortunately, no.
KING: We’ll take a break and we’ll be right back; and then later, Hedda Nussbaum; Bill Maher on Thursday. Don’t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PURDY: We responded to the sole complaint made by a guest. We promptly called in the FBI and local authorities to conduct an investigation. We secured the Smith’s cabin and the metal overhang and we conducted a thorough search of the ship.
We subsequently interviewed guests and crew who had any knowledge of the Smiths whereabouts that night and we collected all possible evidence from security camera tapes to charge card receipts and provided it to the FBI.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: George Smith, as we understand it, the ship didn’t go back to the point where they think he went missing right?
G. SMITH: No, they didn’t. After they left port they headed on to their next stop.
KING: So, therefore, if there was a murderer, the murderer was onboard traveling away from the scene of the crime?
G. SMITH: Basically, Larry. What we found out today though we didn’t know that after the Turkish police left the boat, Royal Caribbean went in and they went into my son’s room and basically packed it all up in Royal Caribbean bags and dumped all the stuff on the dock. That was quite — I’ve learned that from Jennifer but I was quite shocked to hear exactly what had happened.
KING: Hey, Brett, why won’t the FBI speak out on this a little and why won’t they let Jennifer speak out?
RIVKIND: Larry, they have still the ongoing investigation and I think they may be zoning in or focusing on some suspects and they feel that if any part of their investigation is revealed or discussed it could interfere or hamper their investigation. It is very frustrating to the Smith family though and it has been for these past five months. But they’ve cooperated. They’ve been in touch with the FBI and they’re heeding their wishes, Larry.
KING: Maureen, why couldn’t Jennifer have talked to you in private just in a private room without the FBI or anyone present about your son?
M. SMITH: She’s in the middle with the FBI. She’s given them a wealth of information and there’s no way I want the investigation of my son hampered and I’m not going to ask. I’m just going to wait. Time will tell what happened that night and she’s working with the FBI and cooperating fully.
KING: Bree, has her life resumed any kind of normalcy?
B. SMITH: Well, I just think that how does it return to normalcy after only, you know, that many months? You know she’s obviously devastated. She thought she was going to be starting a new life. They were very much in love. They had an amazing wedding and, you know, they were really very much enjoying their honeymoon before this happened. She was not able to return to teaching in Westport. She lived with her — she has been living with her parents as far as I know.
KING: Brett, are you saying that cruise lines are dangerous?
RIVKIND: Larry, I think they’re a lot more dangerous than the public thinks. That was discussed today at the hearing that 99 percent of anybody who goes onboard a ship it would not even cross their mind that they could be the victim of a crime and a very serious crime, yet they have been prevalent over the years onboard the ships.
And, we believe that the cruise ship industry has deliberately engaged in a systematic pattern or practice of keeping this quiet from the public because it hurts their public image.
So yes, Larry, I think that there are dangers aboard the ship. The public needs to be aware of that and Congress is now aware of it and Congress is obviously aware of the need for change and stronger regulations because of it.
KING: Now, is there a trick here? There’s admiralty law involved. For example, the ship was flying under what flag?
RIVKIND: In this particular case, yes, the ship flies a Bahamian flag. The company itself is actually incorporated in Liberia. And then you have it sailing in international waters and territorial waters of foreign countries. So, you can imagine there’s a possible jurisdictional nightmare…
KING: Yes.
RIVKIND: …to a United States passenger who has been the victim of a crime and they don’t know that.
KING: But how can a — how can a Congress make law to subvert that?
RIVKIND: Well, that was what was discussed today, Larry. They wanted to know and I think that’s what they’re going to examine what authority they can exercise and to what degree in such situations and that was discussed today.
But they want to protect and they clearly stated that today at the hearings. We want to protect our U.S. passengers because there’s millions of U.S. passengers going on these cruise ships every year.
And we don’t want a situation where the cruise line decides voluntarily whether they’re going to report an incident to the FBI or they’re going to report it to the Turkish authorities, how long it’s going to take to get the FBI involved in the investigation and what’s going to happen to all the evidence in the meantime.
KING: And there’s no question in your mind that the FBI has the authority to go in?
RIVKIND: Well, in this particular case, yes Larry. This was an incident involving a United States passenger in international waters so, yes, it’s just — it’s our position that they just came in too late because of the cruise line’s actions.
KING: Yes. George, you want what, a closure?
G. SMITH: Definitely want closure and some answers. I want Royal Caribbean to decide what really happened that night. I think there’s been a cover up, excuse me, from the beginning and it continues. They just don’t give us answers.
KING: Has the cruise line offered to your knowledge, Maureen, have they offered Jennifer or you a financial settlement?
M. SMITH: No.
KING: None?
M. SMITH: No.
KING: Are you suing for finances, Maureen?
M. SMITH: We’re suing for answers. We’re suing for answers to what happened to my son.
KING: Do you expect to find them?
M. SMITH: Yes, I do. We do.
KING: And you are confident?
M. SMITH: I’m confident we will find answers, yes I am.
KING: Are you, Bree?
B. SMITH: Yes. The FBI is 100 percent committed to this case. We have been informed that they’re not going to let it go. They’re very actively investigating and I just — I think they will solve the case and make arrests and convictions.
KING: And, Brett, do you think laws will change?
RIVKIND: I think so, Larry, from today’s hearings and I’m confident that Congress really, really, really feels a need for change and I think there will be changes, needed changes. I’ve been doing maritime law now for 23 years in Miami, the cruise ship capital of the world and today was long overdue.
And I believe changes will be made thanks to Congressman Shays starting this committee and these hearings today. And he said they will continue. This is not the end. There will be more hearings. Yes, Larry, we are confident there will be needed change made in the cruise ship industry.
KING: Good luck to all of you, George Smith, Maureen Smith, Bree Smith and attorney Brett Rivkind, sad story.